Bring it

"Party-vi" (party-vi)
08/26/2013 at 22:05 • Filed to: oppositelock

The McLaren MP4-12C is a lackluster followup to the F1 and is nothing more than an "also-ran" in today's $200,000+ super car market that includes better choices such as the: Lamborghini Gallardo, Ferrari 458, Noble M600, Audi R8 GT, Mercedes SLS AMG, Bentley Continental GT Speed, Aston Martin Vanquish, and Porsche 911 Turbo, etc., etc.

edit: Also the name is silly. It sounds more like a robot in Star Wars than a car.

DISCUSSION (63)

For Sweden > Party-vi
08/26/2013 at 22:06

Audi R8

Better

Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise > Party-vi
08/26/2013 at 22:06

Except that it isn't a follow-up to the F1. The rest of your opinions are fine, and easily defendable, but McLaren never made the 12C to follow up the F1, that's the P1's job.

Corey CC97, MAZDA DPI IS STILL BAE JOESTACTIV JOESTACTIV JOESTACTIV JOESTACTIV VISIT FLORIDA RACING LIVES FOREVER IN OUR HEARTS > Party-vi
08/26/2013 at 22:10

The troll is strong with this one...

Joe_Limon > Party-vi
08/26/2013 at 22:10

The mp4-12c never was meant to be an f1 successor, the two aren't even in the same price range. The mp4 was mclarens gateway drug, its profits fueled the p1s development, and helped narrow down the P1s client list to those who would treat the brand with the most respect the p1 buyers must first buy a mp4. Just like how Ferarri sells their premium vehicles.

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > Party-vi
08/26/2013 at 22:12

But all the best cars use the Eclipse green house.

Kinja'd!!!

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > Party-vi
08/26/2013 at 22:12

But honestly, that's the fastest car I ever drive. Speeding up to 180mph on a empty countryside.

kouryuuk > Party-vi
08/26/2013 at 22:13

Have you driven any of these cars?

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Party-vi
08/26/2013 at 22:17

Except that it isn't a follow-up to the F1. The rest of your opinions are fine, and easily defendable, but McLaren never made the 12C to follow up the F1, that's the P1's job.

Party-vi > Ravey Mayvey Slurpee Surprise
08/26/2013 at 22:18

The MP4-12C was the next production car after the F1 (I'm not including the SLR because it's a damn Mercedes). I understand the P1 is the successor, but going from the F1 to the MP4-12C is a huge disappointment. It's like putting the old XJ Cherokee next to the new one (yes I'm one of those guys...).

PanchoVilleneuve ST > For Sweden
08/26/2013 at 22:21

The R8 is a Lamborghini with all the panache and flair and excitement taken out of it, therefore, it is a completely useless object.

Party-vi > Joe_Limon
08/26/2013 at 22:22

McLaren's road car timeline:

F1: 1992 - 1998

MP4-12C: 2011 - present

P1: LOL SOLD OUT BUT NO ONE HAS IT YET

Hence, my "follow-up" reasoning.

Z_Stig > Party-vi
08/26/2013 at 22:22

I still like it though.....

Party-vi > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman
08/26/2013 at 22:24

It literally followed the F1 after McLaren took a snooze-a-roo in the production car department for a decade.

Party-vi > kouryuuk
08/26/2013 at 22:24

Kinja'd!!!

Only in video games. And my imagination.

Party-vi > Z_Stig
08/26/2013 at 22:25

Good. Besides, anyone who sees my post as an actual reason to dislike the MP4-12C would be silly.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Party-vi
08/26/2013 at 22:27

It is better looking than the freak-face F458.

It is cleaner looking than the "look at me" jet fighter styling of the Gallardo.

It is lighter and more focused than R8.

It is carbon fiber monocoque, by a company more renowned for CF work than Toyota's Lexus LF-A, still in production, and FAR less expensive.

It uses one of the only hydraulic cross-linked suspensions aside from Citroen DS, for both road-ready ride quality, and track-conquering handling.

The interior is immaculate, and innovative.

Kinja'd!!!

The tail panel looks fantastic, with the exhaust high-mounted, not to heat soak the drivetrain, and the tail lights integrated into the grillwork.

Kinja'd!!!

It has butterfly doors.

It doesn't bother shuttling coolant to the front of the car, which is the reason for the big aero turning vanes in the sides.

The spider version is as good as the coupe, both technically, and aesthetically.

Kinja'd!!!

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Party-vi
08/26/2013 at 22:28

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > PanchoVilleneuve ST
08/26/2013 at 22:29

But those lost attributes give it value just as much as those attributes take it away... I think

Party-vi > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman
08/26/2013 at 22:30

Kinja'd!!!

Joe_Limon > Party-vi
08/26/2013 at 22:31

I don't "follow" your reasoning :)

There are plenty of supercars that get sold out before they enter production. Insert, Reventon, LaFerrari, etc etc.

Party-vi > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
08/26/2013 at 22:32

To me it is devoid of soul.

Clown Shoe Pilot > Party-vi
08/26/2013 at 22:33

You should take a lap of a track in one

Party-vi > Joe_Limon
08/26/2013 at 22:36

True, but when else in the history of ever has a company produced the most amazing thing seen by the world and then the next thing they make doesn't even come close?

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Party-vi
08/26/2013 at 22:36

I'm not even gonna lie...that answer was so perfect, I laughed

phenotyp > Party-vi
08/26/2013 at 22:37

I've said the same things. While I respect its performance, there's not a single thing about it that excites me. Zero.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Party-vi
08/26/2013 at 22:39

Nah, it just doesn't wear it on it's sleeve.

It isn't the rowdy party-guy of super cars.

It is the guy off to the side, who isn't attracting attention, might not be wearing the flashiest suit, but is a world class athlete, and a doctorate holder in engineering and science, and is a warm and well-read conversationalist, one-on-one.

This car is about being sublime, not about being ostentatious.

Party-vi > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
08/26/2013 at 22:41

And has British teeth and talks funny.

Really I can find no fault with the car except the styling does nothing for me.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Party-vi
08/26/2013 at 22:44

Not even that white one with red details?

I don't see how that one isn't hawt, even if I think all of them are.

Party-vi > Clown Shoe Pilot
08/26/2013 at 22:45

I'm just a poor boy from a poor family.

Party-vi > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
08/26/2013 at 22:48

Kinja'd!!!

Nope. This is where it's at for me as far as British marques go.

Joe_Limon > Party-vi
08/26/2013 at 22:49

Well... speaking from my personal opinions.

Jaguar did it with the XJ220
BMW did it with the M1
Pagani did it with the Zonda (personal style opinions only)
Mercedes did it with the SLR
Bugatti did it with the Veyron (Galibier? eww)
also... whatever Aston Martin did before the Cygnet...

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Party-vi
08/26/2013 at 22:50

I like Noble/Rossion on technical aspects, but that looks like a mess, and under-developed aesthetically.

It seems about half-way between amateur-hour kit-car and good looking manufactured cars.

Milky > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman
08/26/2013 at 22:57

Both of your opinions ..... I dont agree with.

This is great

Kinja'd!!!

and so is this

Kinja'd!!!

Clown Shoe Pilot > Party-vi
08/26/2013 at 23:05

you don't have to BUY it. you don't even have to drive it. just get in one and get around a track. it's got soul.

feather-throttle-not-hair > Party-vi
08/26/2013 at 23:20

Aston Martin db7: 1994-2004
Aston Martin cygnet: 2011 - present

The cygnet is the worst follow up in the history of cars.

feather-throttle-not-hair > Party-vi
08/26/2013 at 23:21

Aston Martin db7: 1994-2004
Aston Martin cygnet: 2011 - present

The cygnet is the worst follow up in the history of cars.

feather-throttle-not-hair > The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123
08/26/2013 at 23:23

I think you mean "but all the best cars ARE ECLIPSES"

PanchoVilleneuve ST > SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman
08/27/2013 at 00:08

A supercar is supposed to be flamboyant and crazy and nuts and at least a little bit stupid. I never really understood the whole idea of the "civilized" supercar.

A supercar is like Motorhead. What Audi did with the R8 is turn off their amps.

Saracen > Party-vi
08/27/2013 at 02:53

So tell us all about your day with these cars on the track, because clearly you must have had plenty of time at the wheel of these fine machines to arrive at this conclusion.

William Byrd > Party-vi
08/27/2013 at 08:41

Generally speaking, I agree. And if it were my monies, they wouldn't go to Mclaren over Ferrari, Lambo, etc.

Party-vi > Saracen
08/27/2013 at 10:06

I have logged over 1,000,000 miles on the MP4-12C and used lots of science to come to my conclusion.

Party-vi > feather-throttle-not-hair
08/27/2013 at 10:10

Using my logic (if you can call it that) the "follow-up", or next production vehicle, to the DB7 was the DB9, as DB7 production ended in 2003 and DB9 production started in 2004. Then there was the "new" V8 Vantage, DBS, One-77, Rapide and finally the Cygnet which is really a Toyota.

Party-vi > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
08/27/2013 at 10:12

Seriously? The M600 looks amazing - nothing like the bland styling (if you can call it that) of the MP4-12C. The greenhouse flows into the back haunches, the front is wide and low, it just looks great to me.

Party-vi > Joe_Limon
08/27/2013 at 10:14

Right, but each of those companies you listed was still making cars (excluding Bugatti, who are just an empty German shell of their former glorious French selves). Jaguar didn't stop production for over a decade after making the XJ220, and BMW made tons of cars after the M1. The F1 was McLaren's only road going car for over 10 years until they made the MP4-12C.

Joe_Limon > Party-vi
08/27/2013 at 10:37

That's fine and all, but it's not like they were sitting idly by coasting off the success of the F1, they were still involved in Formula 1 and they did design the Mercedes SLR Mclaren.

Party-vi > Joe_Limon
08/27/2013 at 10:55

Agreed, but it took Murray 4 years to get the SLR to production even with the help of Mercedes. By comparison the F1 took the same amount of time and that car was developed pretty much from scratch (except the engine if I recall correctly).

Joe_Limon > Party-vi
08/27/2013 at 11:00

Smaller companies tend to have faster turn around times when it comes to design. Having more resources available is beneficial, but having too many chefs in the kitchen can really hinder progress.

The fact that they (may) have similar time frames shows more so how little engineering input Mercedes was giving the team.

Party-vi > Joe_Limon
08/27/2013 at 11:03

Murray sketched his eventual F1 design on a napkin (so I am told) in 1988 - it went into production in 1992. The contract for the SLR was signed in 1999 and it went into production in 2003 - I'll assume they have similar design periods. I think Murray was too busy with his city cars to do most of the work on the SLR.

magman007 > Party-vi
08/27/2013 at 11:20

if its an also ran, why is it so much faster than the competition?

Party-vi > magman007
08/27/2013 at 11:40

Got any proof of that? From what I can tell it did a hot lap of 7:28 at the 'Ring, but even that super-fast time was slower than a Corvette ZR1, Viper ACR, Porsche 911 GT3 RS, Nissan GT-R, Pagani Zonda, Enzo, etc.

magman007 > Party-vi
08/27/2013 at 11:56

Zonda and enzo are not competition, R8 v10, 458 and gallardo are, all of which is has bested. Its faster on the TG board than the zonda f and the apollo as well.

Party-vi > magman007
08/27/2013 at 12:04

The ZR1, GT-R and ACR aren't competition either but they're faster.

magman007 > Party-vi
08/27/2013 at 13:42

Right, they're faster than a lot of cars for their money, cars that are heralded as better, even though they're slower around the ring. That being said, the cars the mclaren directly competes against it is faster than, being best in class and best in category, and still one of the faster cars money can buy.

If the perception of value was based solely on performance merits, the italian brands would have gone under long ago.

Party-vi > magman007
08/27/2013 at 14:07

Agreed - the MP4-12C is a fast car and is put together very well. It doesn't change my opinion that for the same money you can get something that moves you when you look at it and has soul. For me the McLaren is severely lacking.

feather-throttle-not-hair > Party-vi
08/27/2013 at 14:10

Ooohhh good research! I was too lazy to do all of that.

magman007 > Party-vi
08/27/2013 at 14:23

but by your argument, why would you bother buying something with soul, thats not as good for the same money?

Party-vi > magman007
08/27/2013 at 14:29

Ah but it would be as good to me - we are talking about cars with a very high performance threshold, so really the differences in 0-60 times, braking, etc. will not be noticed as you drive them to and from work or for spirited outings on weekends. Even at local autocross events the differences would be miniscule. Since these differences will not matter it's a choice of personal taste, and the MP4-12C leaves a bad one in my mouth. I will qualify my statement in that I have never had the pleasure to drive any of the cars we have talked about, but from a spectator's point of view I still think there are better options than the McLaren.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Party-vi
08/27/2013 at 15:31

The profile isn't the problem, nor the width, and those are the aspects that it shares with MP4-12C.

The shut line from the door to the front fender is rough, and there is no need for air extraction from there if the fenders extend wider than the front edge of the door skins, the engine isn't in the front, and the radiators have outlet vents already.

The fender flares vary in depth, the scoops are awkwardly blended or not blended, the front end isn't horrible, but it isn't exactly innovative, and the front extractors look like they were chopped out of the panel after the fact.

The headlights take up far more real estate than the modular units inside require, with a lot of just filling space.

The Porsche Carrera GT mirrors look good, but perched at an angle they weren't originally designed for.

And blue is one of my favorite colors... but if you aren't going to put an orange gulf stripe on that thing, that is not a great color choice.

It looks like a car that was styled by an engineer that just wanted to get the car wrapped in a body, rather than a designer.

If you want to talk about McLaren's styling fumbles, we can talk about the P1, which I am not a fan of, style-wise... They should have bought the Ian Callum CX75 Design from Jaguar, for that.

Party-vi > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
08/27/2013 at 15:35

The MP4-12C's styling is just bland to me - like a child's concept of what a super car is, with a pointy nose and some vents and everything is smoothed out. It's vanilla styling to me. However, the front of the M600 reminds me a bit of the Lister Storm, and even though it's a bit choppy like you said it works for me. I just can't look at the McLaren and say "boy I have to have that car some day".

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Party-vi
08/27/2013 at 15:39

I will agree with you that it is no Lamborghini Countach. It isn't setting the car design world on it's ear.

But most kids can't get proportions and details that well.

It may be smooth and sleek.

It is much more Savile Row than a flashy Zoot Suit. It doesn't scream, but when you do look... everything is impeccably finished correctly.

Party-vi > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
08/27/2013 at 15:41

There is the problem - too clinical and complete. As if it were designed by computers without any human input.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Party-vi
08/27/2013 at 15:55

That is why variety is the spice of life. :D

Party-vi > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast.
08/27/2013 at 16:16

And that is why the MP4-12C is selling just as well as the rest of them.